1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:04,720 Summer 1483, 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:06,560 the Tower of London. 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,840 Two young boys are about to become victims of one of the greatest 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,400 unsolved crimes of British history. 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,480 King Edward IV is dead. 6 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,600 His 12-year-old son is about to be crowned, but instead, 7 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:31,040 the story goes, he and his younger brother are murdered in their beds. 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,440 This mystery will endure. 9 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,480 What really happened to the Princes in the Tower? 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,600 In this series, I'm reinvestigating some of the most dramatic 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,080 and brutal chapters in British history. 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,720 It wasn't just one generation, it was three generations 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,360 losing their lives - bam, bam, bam. 14 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,360 These stories form part of our national mythology. 15 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:07,080 They harbour mysteries that have intrigued us for centuries. 16 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,720 It's chilling to think that this could actually be 17 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,560 evidence in a murder investigation. 18 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:17,480 But with the passage of time, we have new ways to unlock 19 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:23,200 their secrets, using scientific advances and a modern perspective. 20 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,800 It's a horrible psychosexual form of torture. Absolutely. 21 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,640 I'm going to uncover forgotten witnesses. 22 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,920 I'm going to re-examine old evidence and follow new clues 23 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,600 to get closer to the truth. 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,040 It is one of the great British mysteries. 25 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,680 It was one of those moments, I'm afraid, for a historian, 26 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,120 that makes the hair stand up on the back of your neck. 27 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:48,640 CROW CAWS 28 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:06,360 The story of the Princes in the Tower 29 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,840 is as familiar as a fairy-tale. 30 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:14,720 Two innocent boys murdered by their evil Uncle Richard, 31 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,640 so he could seize the throne for himself. 32 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,480 500 years ago, it was in this very building 33 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:29,760 that the two young princes, Edward and Richard, were last seen alive. 34 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,040 After that, they disappeared from the historical record. 35 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,320 I'd like to know if they were murdered, 36 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,320 and if so, who was responsible? 37 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,560 As a historian, royal history is my home turf. 38 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:02,120 I'm well aware that when it comes to the 39 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,320 Princes in the Tower, 40 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,160 Richard III has hogged the limelight. 41 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:09,800 Richard III... 42 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:15,240 Shakespeare portrayed him as the biggest baddie of British history. 43 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,920 Beyond reasonable doubt, the individual exhumed in September 44 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:23,600 2012 is indeed Richard III, the last Plantagenet King of England. 45 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:28,520 But the discovery of his remains under a Leicester car park in 2012 46 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,960 fuelled a passionate campaign to reclaim his reputation. 47 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:37,400 He was buried in Leicester Cathedral with stately ceremony. 48 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,680 Here in a cathedral, history meets the present... 49 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:46,240 I find that there's something rather awkward being glossed over 50 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,160 here in this celebration of Richard III. 51 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,320 Yes, he was King for two years, 52 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,320 but together, a lot of people would 53 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,880 tell you that he murdered his own 54 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,760 nephews, and they were just children. 55 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,440 So, although facts about them are hard to come by, 56 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:08,080 it's the story of the Princes that I want to explore 57 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:09,880 and reclaim. 58 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,200 Edward and Richard were just 12 and 9 59 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:21,960 when they were supposedly killed. 60 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:25,560 To piece together their story, I think 61 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,400 I need to try to get beyond my preconceptions and, 62 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,240 like a lot of people, when you say the words 63 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,920 "the Princes in the Tower", what comes into my mind is this image. 64 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,840 It's by the Victorian painter John Everett Millais 65 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:44,640 and it shows the little boys in the last moments of their lives, 66 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,880 just before they're going to be killed. 67 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,440 It's a painting that tugs at the heartstrings. 68 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,520 But really, it's a painting about Victorian values 69 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,880 and about the innocence of childhood. 70 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,280 Millais shows them as archetypes in a fairy-tale and it really has 71 00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:02,360 very little relationship to the historical truth. 72 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:11,680 To discover who these royal boys really were, 73 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,520 I need to understand the world in which they lived. 74 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:21,400 They were born into one of the most violent periods of British history - 75 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:26,080 the Wars of the Roses, a decades-long fight over the English 76 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:31,360 throne between two factions of the royal family - Lancaster and York. 77 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,880 It had already taken a bloody toll 78 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,240 when Lancastrian King Henry VI 79 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,280 was killed by Edward IV, 80 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:41,240 making him the first Yorkist King. 81 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:43,200 Edward was ruthless. 82 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:47,480 He murdered his own brother, George, for betraying him, but Richard 83 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:51,720 he made Duke of Gloucester, giving him power in the North of England. 84 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:59,160 The Princes' father, Edward IV, was a notorious philanderer. 85 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,440 And on top of that, nobody liked his wife. 86 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,960 As King, he was supposed to have married a virginal foreign 87 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,320 princess to forge a new international alliance for England. 88 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,400 Instead, he'd married Elizabeth Woodville, 89 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,040 the widow of a Lancastrian. 90 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:21,320 The English nobility are jealous that the Woodvilles got riches 91 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:23,160 and titles. 92 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,840 For her part, Elizabeth Woodville did keep the bargain - 93 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:30,000 she gave the King what she was supposed to do, ten children, 94 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,440 including two all-important surviving male heirs. 95 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:39,600 So this is the backdrop against which the Princes are born, 96 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:45,440 the Wars of the Roses, an unpopular, powerful mother. 97 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,960 The stage is set for scenes of high drama. 98 00:06:55,640 --> 00:07:00,160 From the moment of his birth, the eldest Prince, Edward, was destined 99 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,800 to inherit the throne and secure the dynasty of the House of York. 100 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,360 In the cut-throat climate of the Wars of the Roses, 101 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,320 he offered hope for stability and healing. 102 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:18,600 He was extremely valuable, but equally vulnerable. 103 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:24,280 This is where young Edward grew up, in his very own castle. 104 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,000 Most sons of the nobility were sent away from their families 105 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,800 at the age of seven to learn the skills required for life at court. 106 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,680 Edward was moved here to Ludlow in Shropshire at just three. 107 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:45,440 His whole household was dedicated to protecting him 108 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,160 and preparing him one day to rule the kingdom. 109 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,320 Though few records survive, 110 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,280 I've tracked down a document which demonstrates his worth. 111 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,680 Here are the records of things that 112 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,600 were paid out for his wardrobe. 113 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,760 Here, a payment is made for the making of a long 114 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,720 gown of crimson velvet. 115 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,160 There's a payment here for a doublet of black velvet, 116 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,880 furred with a tawny fox. Ooh! Here, he's had... 117 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,120 I think that's a jacket made out of cloth of gold. 118 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:23,120 This is expensive stuff. 119 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:27,720 This shows that Edward, at least, is no ordinary child. 120 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,360 In the eyes of the Church in medieval England, 121 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,680 you were a child until the age of 14. 122 00:08:35,680 --> 00:08:38,240 At that point, a girl should be ready to marry 123 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,840 and bear children, a boy to fight and die in battle. 124 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:47,200 For Edward, it meant being ready to be King. 125 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:54,320 Edward IV entrusted the task of schooling his son 126 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:59,120 and successor to the Queen's brother, Anthony Woodville. 127 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:01,800 Young master... 128 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:11,840 I love that feeling of walking where he must have walked. He was here. 129 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:19,240 I wonder what it was like for young Edward, growing up here, 130 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,880 away from his parents and his younger brother Richard, 131 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,800 destined for a future he couldn't escape. 132 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,480 Only one historian has ever attempted 133 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,120 a biography of Edward's short life. 134 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,600 Nice to see you. Very pleased to meet you. 135 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,520 Got your own book there. Yes. Fantastic! 136 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,040 Given that Edward was three 137 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,840 when he came to live here with Anthony Woodville, 138 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,720 is it fair to say that Woodville was probably more of a father figure 139 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:51,360 to him than his actual father? 140 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,880 Yes, I think he probably was. 141 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,880 He was not just a distant overseer, 142 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,720 he was always in the household with the Prince. 143 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,880 And you've been able to recreate his time here. What was it like? 144 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:11,880 Well, we know Edward IV wrote a set of ordinances for the household, 145 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:16,240 which regulated the Prince's timetable. 146 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,960 "So he shall arise every morning at a convenient hour..." 147 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:25,360 Which was six o'clock. That's not very convenient, in my view! 148 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,320 It says here that little Edward is going to have his breakfast 149 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,360 immediately after his mass. 150 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,880 He's going to spend the day "in virtuous learning", 151 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,240 so this sounds like a very formal... Yes. 152 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,280 ..structured, rigorous way of life. Sounds like a little King, really. 153 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,960 Yes, and then Edward ordained that "no person, man or woman, 154 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,800 "may be a customary swearer, 155 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:52,520 "brawler, backbyter or use words of rybauldrye in the presence 156 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,560 "of our sayd sonne." I like it that they explicitly 157 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:59,000 say, "No swearing in the Prince's presence." 158 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,400 And then, after lunch, he has disportes. Disportes. 159 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,080 Now, that doesn't really mean leisure, does it? 160 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,360 No, it means athletic activity - 161 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,760 riding and hawking and fighting. 162 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,080 And this is training to be a warrior. Yes. 163 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,960 He had a special set of armour, which was made for him. 164 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,600 His father was first in battle at 13, is that right? Mm. 165 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,480 This is clearly not a normal upbringing, even at the time. 166 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,120 It's just hard to imagine a little boy having all of this 167 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,320 expectation placed upon him. 168 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:37,000 He had a dozen years or more when he mattered 169 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,160 and was politically significant. 170 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,880 He knew what he was going to be. 171 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,920 He was a Prince, expecting to become 172 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,680 a King, and his future was set out. 173 00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:50,200 Michael, what's your view? 174 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,120 Do you think that Richard III is guilty or not? Yes! 175 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,120 Of course he's guilty! 176 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,160 One of the fascinating things about this chapter of history is 177 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,120 just how fragmentary the sources are. 178 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:16,600 There's very little in the way of hard evidence, but there is this. 179 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,640 It's an account by Dominic Mancini, 180 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,640 an Italian scholar who was visiting England. 181 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,360 And this is pretty close to an eyewitness description 182 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:31,720 of the events of 1483, the summer that the Princes disappeared. 183 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,560 Now, the original of Mancini's work 184 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:38,320 is in a library in France. 185 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:39,720 It's pretty amazing. 186 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,400 It's also amazing to think that this document was only 187 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:47,880 discovered in the 1930s. Imagine the thrill of coming across that. 188 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,760 This is the original Latin. It's been written out by a scribe, 189 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,480 and Mancini has put some little notes of his own in the margin. 190 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,280 Mancini probably met the 12-year-old Edward. 191 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,000 He clearly saw him as a King in the making. 192 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:19,080 "He had such dignity in his whole person, 193 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,800 "and in his face such charm that however much they might gaze, 194 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,160 "he never worried the eyes of beholders." 195 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,360 Because Mancini was a foreigner 196 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,800 and because he wasn't that close to the main players, I think that he 197 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:37,440 has a bit of distance upon events and perhaps therefore some 198 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,440 integrity, and I think it is a 199 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,920 source that's worth taking seriously. 200 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:48,200 Mancini recounts the extraordinary events of the summer of 1483, 201 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,040 when Edward's life is suddenly thrown into turmoil. 202 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:10,400 Everything had been about preparing him for this moment, 203 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,360 but it came sooner, I think, than anyone was expecting. 204 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:15,640 Give it to me. 205 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,720 On the 9th of April 1483, 206 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,880 King Edward IV dies suddenly after a short illness. 207 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,360 God save the King. 208 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,240 Long live the King. 209 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,480 All eyes turn to his eldest son, 210 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,240 who's now King Edward V. 211 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,400 CHURCH BELLS 212 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:49,360 A few years later, Edward would have been seen as an adult 213 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,000 and this story would have been very different, 214 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,000 but he's just 12 when he succeeds to the throne. 215 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,400 Now, in medieval England, the 216 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,440 government is a personal monarchy. 217 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,920 Everything revolves around the King. 218 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:17,000 I think of him as being like the sun in a solar system 219 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,840 and all the other nobles are like the planets, 220 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,680 circling around him, vying for favours. 221 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,760 But there's a big flaw in this system of government, 222 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,400 and that's when the King dies and we have this moment of succession. 223 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,040 A power vacuum opened up. 224 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,040 It's like it's the moment of the greatest danger. 225 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,120 And when Edward IV dies, there's a really big problem 226 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,160 because little Edward, his son, is only 12 227 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,040 and he can be on the throne, but he can't really make decisions. 228 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,080 Someone's got to advise him. 229 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,920 And into this power vacuum step 230 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,320 all the members of the council, 231 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:54,960 the late King's advisers. 232 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:57,960 They're looking around at each other and sizing each other up 233 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,560 because they know whoever controls the little King actually 234 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,920 controls the country. 235 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,960 To understand what happens next, 236 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,800 I'm going to rely on Mancini. 237 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,080 Mancini tells us that in the event of his early death, 238 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,320 "Edward IV appointed as protector of his children 239 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,200 "and realm his brother, Richard, Duke of Gloucester." 240 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,240 If Edward appointed his brother Richard to be 241 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:30,520 the protector of his children, he must really have trusted this man. 242 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,600 But not everyone believes Edward is best protected by Richard alone. 243 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,520 While Richard is in York, on the 20th of April, 244 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,800 the royal council meet in London. 245 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:50,200 Those most opposed to Richard having power over Edward are the 246 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,480 Queen's family, the Woodvilles. 247 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:58,680 They were afraid that "if Richard took unto himself the crown, 248 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,160 "or even governed alone, they would suffer death, 249 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,160 "or at least be ejected from their high estate." 250 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,920 So, were the Queen and her family, the Woodvilles, trying to 251 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,960 protect her son from Richard, 252 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,480 or was it the other way around? 253 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,240 Was Richard trying to protect little Edward, his nephew, 254 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,120 from a Woodville coup? 255 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,360 This real tug-of-war is now going to begin 256 00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:31,640 and it's going to seal young Edward's fate. 257 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,680 The Woodvilles win the argument. 258 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,560 The royal council decide that Richard should not be 259 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,520 the young King's sole protector. 260 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,320 They agree to crown Edward within a fortnight, on the 4th of May, 261 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,520 a symbolic step that would further diminish Richard's power. 262 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,800 So, on the 9th of April 1483, 263 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:56,880 Edward IV dies. 264 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:02,080 By the 6th of July, Richard III is on the throne. 265 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,880 So, what I want to know is, 266 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:10,040 what happened in those few vital weeks? 267 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,120 On the 24th of April, two weeks after his father's death, 268 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:22,640 Edward sets off for London 269 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,000 to prepare for his coronation, 270 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,720 under the protection of Anthony Woodville. 271 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,600 So, Edward was in limbo. 272 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,600 He was travelling from one role, 273 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,680 being heir in waiting, 274 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:39,720 to another, being King. He was stepping into the future. 275 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,880 Next, though, would come the fork in the road of his life. 276 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,480 A few days later, after learning of the royal council's decision, 277 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:57,680 Richard leaves York with an army of 6,000 men to intercept young Edward. 278 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:02,080 He catches up with him in Buckinghamshire, at Stony Stratford. 279 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,000 The house I'm looking for used to be a coaching inn, but not that one. 280 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,240 Edward spent a night here, in what is now someone's home. 281 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,000 I can see a plaque. I think it might be this one. 282 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,920 SHE KNOCKS ON DOOR 283 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,560 Hello. Are you Kelly? Yes! You are! Hello! Hi! Thank you for having me! 284 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,600 Did you know when you came to live here about it having been where... 285 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,480 We did know. ..Edward V had stayed? Yes, we did. 286 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,920 We knew some of the history. We didn't realise quite how 287 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,160 passionate everyone is about this house. 288 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:46,680 So, this is such a significant place in Edward's life, 289 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,000 cos he was brought here by his tutor, his guardian, 290 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,680 his uncle, and, well, really, his stand-in father, 291 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,800 Anthony Woodville, on his way to go to London to be crowned King. 292 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,640 But Anthony Woodville went off up the road, 293 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,000 in order to spend the evening with Richard, 294 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,760 and as a result of that evening together, 295 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:18,400 Richard decided he was going to move against Anthony Woodville. 296 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,640 The following morning, he had him arrested. 297 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:29,040 So, Edward sat here in this coaching inn, unaware of what was happening. 298 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:30,360 Of course, 299 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:33,240 it's true that his fate had always been in the hands of other 300 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:37,320 people, but now this would be made really clear to him 301 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,520 because that night, he says goodbye to one uncle, 302 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,320 Uncle Anthony Woodville, 303 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,800 the next morning, his world has completely changed. 304 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:50,120 He's now placed in the custody of his other uncle, Uncle Richard. 305 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,560 There are two ways of reading this event. 306 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,080 Supporters of Uncle Richard would say, 307 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,600 "Well, he's doing the right thing here. 308 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,480 "These Woodvilles are a bad lot. 309 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,760 "He's taking his nephew into custody for his own protection." 310 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,760 But the other reading of this is that Richard has 311 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,200 decided that the Woodvilles are a threat to himself, 312 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,680 an existential threat, and that he needs to act. 313 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,360 In this period, during the Wars of the Roses, there's no... 314 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:23,640 ..there's no sort of peaceful co-existence. It's dog eat dog. 315 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,480 Either you are on the make, 316 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,600 winning power, using violence, 317 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,040 or...you're toast. 318 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:33,720 Your enemies are going to eat you. 319 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,360 For Edward, it's bad enough being parted from his uncle, 320 00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:43,120 Anthony Woodville, but it's going to get worse... 321 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:49,640 ..because Anthony Woodville is now put in prison and is executed. 322 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,080 Edward will, in fact, never see him again. 323 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,200 The next day, the 30th of April, 324 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,280 Richard and his army escort Edward to London. 325 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,720 Fearing for the safety of her family, 326 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,760 the Queen, Elizabeth Woodville, 327 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:16,480 takes sanctuary at Westminster Abbey with her youngest son. 328 00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:20,080 When they arrive in the capital, 329 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:25,120 Richard takes Edward directly to the Tower of London. 330 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:29,680 His coronation, planned for the 4th of May, is postponed. 331 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,160 So, the Tower of London, in the 15th century, wasn't just a prison 332 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,200 and a place of execution, like we think of it today. 333 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,600 It was also a fantastic royal palace, the place where 334 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,680 a King was traditionally got ready for his coronation, 335 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,360 which was now definitely going to happen on the 22nd of June. 336 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,280 And there's one piece of evidence, if it's genuine, which would suggest 337 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,600 that preparations for Edward's coronation were still on track... 338 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,560 This is all very high-security. 339 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,000 ..and the British Museum has some rare gold coins, 340 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,560 which were long believed to have been made for Edward V. 341 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,640 Hello, Barrie! Thank you for having me. 342 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,800 Welcome to the Department of Coins and Medals. 343 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,840 The Department of Coins and Medals. 344 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,760 Minted in the weeks while he awaited his coronation, 345 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,400 for some people, they're proof that Richard had no 346 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,200 intention of murdering his nephew and stealing the throne. 347 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:38,640 Ooh! 348 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,360 So, here, we've got all the British medieval coins. English here. 349 00:23:42,360 --> 00:23:45,280 English, specifically. English. Edward IV and V. 350 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:46,800 This is our little case. 351 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,920 The trays... Edward IV, Edward IV... 352 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,080 And here we've got the Edward V tray. 353 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,800 Can I take it right out? Yes. Take... Just take... 354 00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,840 Pull it carefully in both hands. 355 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,160 Look at that! 356 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:02,640 Look at them sparkle! 357 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,560 What a beautiful thing! 358 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,200 Are these actually Edward V coins? Not one of them is Edward V. 359 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,440 Not one of them is Edward V?! SHE LAUGHS 360 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,360 What's actually going on here, then? 361 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:31,320 These are coins that were for a long time thought to be Edward V. Yeah. 362 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,960 They were coins that name a king called Edward, but they also 363 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,440 have a mint mark that relates to Richard Duke of Gloucester. 364 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,840 If you look at it, there's a boar's head... There's something there. 365 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,960 ..followed by the letter E for Edward. 366 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,920 OK, I'm going to have to take your word, that's the head of the boar. 367 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,200 I promise. 368 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,400 The assumption was that these coins belonged to the period 369 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:53,240 when Edward V was regarded as King, and Gloucester was Lord Protector. 370 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:58,320 And did the British Museum think this for a really long time? 371 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,360 Probably for over a century and a half. 372 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:03,600 The analysis that made it clear they aren't only happened in the 1990s. 373 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,000 Yeah. Yeah. So it's my fault these haven't been changed. 374 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,480 But it's quite useful to have this group... I know, it's... 375 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,880 ..in this way and so one can have this sort of conversation. 376 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,360 And there has been controversy. 377 00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:14,840 People don't like the fact that these aren't Edward V coins. 378 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,560 So, why do you think that these are not Edward V coins? 379 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,880 A very good expert in coins did a complete 380 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:21,680 study of Richard III's coinage, 381 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,640 including the Edward V material, as it was then thought to be, 382 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,280 and he was able to demonstrate 383 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,720 quite clearly that the coins that name Edward, 384 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,640 but that have the boar's head mark of Richard, Duke of Gloucester, 385 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,280 were issued at the same time as, or even after, 386 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,320 some of the coins that name Richard. 387 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,440 So, during those 11 weeks when Edward had inherited but wasn't 388 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,520 yet crowned, they just kept turning old Edward IV coins until... Yeah. 389 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,480 ..the situation was resolved and Richard was in charge. Yes. 390 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,280 So, isn't it interesting that people could have looked at these 391 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:50,920 coins and thought, "Yes, 392 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,200 "these support the argument that they did intend to crown Edward V"? 393 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,840 For hundreds of years, 394 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,280 people thought that the coins told that story. 395 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,920 Yes, it's a question of how you interpret the information, 396 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,360 how you look at the evidence and how you reinterpret it. 397 00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:06,200 Mm. And they were not necessarily fooled... 398 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,760 No, no, there's a good reason for thinking what they thought. 399 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,680 It's an entirely logical deduction and inference from the coinage. 400 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,520 Yeah. It just happens to be a wrong one. 401 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,280 So, this doesn't tell a clear story, but that's just... 402 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,880 ..indicative of this whole slippery, shape-shifty period of history. 403 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,280 I like the way that nothing is what it seems. 404 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,280 Barrie, what do you think? 405 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,200 Was Richard III guilty of murdering the Princes? Oh, absolutely. 406 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,720 "Absolutely," Barrie says. No question about that. 407 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,760 The coins may not help decipher Richard's intent to crown Edward, 408 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,840 but I've tracked down a remarkable letter. 409 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,800 By the middle of June, tension between Richard 410 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,080 and Edward V's mother, Elizabeth Woodville - 411 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,120 still in sanctuary at Westminster - is escalating. 412 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:00,840 Here it is. Uncle Richard, the Duke of Gloucester, 413 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,760 writes to ask the York citizens to assist him against the Queen. 414 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,760 And he says to them, 415 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:12,200 "We heartily pray you to come unto us in London with all 416 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:17,680 "the money that you've got to aid and assist us against the Queen. 417 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,840 "Her blood, adherents and affinity 418 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,440 "daily do intend to murder and utterly destroy us 419 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:29,680 "and the old royal blood of this realm." 420 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,080 What's actually going on here? 421 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:37,160 Is Richard doing his job, asking for help to protect little Edward, 422 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,000 as Lord Protector? 423 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,080 Or is he asking for help to protect 424 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,880 himself and his own ambition? 425 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,480 Within days, Richard convinced the royal council that Edward 426 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,120 should not be crowned without his younger brother present, 427 00:27:56,120 --> 00:28:00,120 and, as Mancini tells us, he makes a decisive move. 428 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,200 "When the Queen saw herself besieged, 429 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,560 "she surrendered their son, 430 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:18,000 "trusting that the boy should be restored after the coronation." 431 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,760 The heir and the spare are now secure in the Tower, 432 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:30,200 but the following day, the coronation is postponed again. 433 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,520 And, goodness me, the plot is going to thicken! 434 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,520 The next unexpected event is going to happen in here. 435 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:41,880 Aha! 436 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,000 "Here stood Paul's Cross". 437 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,560 This was the spot of a famous preaching place. 438 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,040 It's where people gave public sermons 439 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,160 and sort of gave out official information 440 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:57,600 and crowds of thousands of people would gather to listen. 441 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,280 On the 22nd of June, a preacher 442 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,520 called Dr Shaw dropped a bombshell. 443 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,000 He says that way back when Edward IV had got married to 444 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,800 Elizabeth Woodville, he was already 445 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,080 "legally contracted to another wife," 446 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,080 and the marriage to Elizabeth Woodville was null and void, 447 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,520 which meant "that their entire offspring," 448 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:26,000 Mancini says, "was unworthy of the kingship." 449 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,960 So, young Edward, the King to be... 450 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,960 ..he was illegitimate. He was what they would have called a bastard. 451 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,480 Imagine what young Edward must have thought 452 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,880 when he heard about this rumour. 453 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:49,400 He'd gone from about to be King to being a bastard in a single stroke. 454 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,560 Rumour had it that Richard was behind Reverend Shaw's 455 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,240 shattering pronouncement, but we just don't know the truth. 456 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,040 Here's a pass. Thank you. 457 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,720 What's certain is that once the Princes had 458 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,160 lost their right to the throne, Richard was next in line. 459 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:22,320 Some people think this was all part of Richard's evil masterplan, 460 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,400 others that he had to be persuaded into it reluctantly, 461 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,440 but either way, on the 6th of July, it wasn't Edward but his uncle 462 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:36,000 who went to Westminster Abbey to be crowned King Richard III. 463 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,600 As Richard took the throne, the two Princes were still in the Tower. 464 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:56,200 In 1483, remember, there was that marvellous royal palace 465 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,600 within the walls of the Tower, with rich rooms. 466 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,040 And that's where Edward and Richard were housed. 467 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,960 It also had beautiful gardens, where the boys were seen playing together. 468 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:13,120 And then, what happened next took place in this building, 469 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,400 which the Victorians renamed the Bloody Tower. 470 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,320 Mancini says that all the attendants 471 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,600 who had waited upon the King 472 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,560 were debarred access to him. 473 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,920 "He and his brother were withdrawn into the inner apartments 474 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,360 "of the Tower, proper... 475 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,840 "..and day by day, began to be seen more rarely behind the bars 476 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,480 "and windows, 477 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,960 "till at length they ceased 478 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,200 "to appear altogether." 479 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,920 And despite centuries of investigation and speculation, 480 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,480 nobody really knows what happened to them. 481 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:15,920 There's only one thing we can be completely sure about, which is 482 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,320 that by the end of the summer, 483 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:23,400 the beginning of the autumn of 1483, the Princes were gone. 484 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,720 Richard III's reign was short-lived. 485 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,920 Just two years after taking the throne, 486 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,080 he was killed by Henry VII 487 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,520 at the Battle of Bosworth. 488 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,880 The Wars of the Roses ended 489 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,520 and the Tudor dynasty began. 490 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,560 Elizabeth Woodville endured. 491 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,200 She engineered a marriage between one of her daughters 492 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,440 and the new Tudor King, 493 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,080 creating another Woodville Queen. 494 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,360 I get the feeling that at the dawn of this new era, 495 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,800 the sorry business of the Princes was part of a painful chapter 496 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,720 that everyone was eager to forget. 497 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,280 Mancini couldn't explain what had happened to them, 498 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:31,040 but years later, an account emerged that appeared to solve the mystery. 499 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,880 Ooh! Look at this! 500 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,960 This is a copy, sent to me by the 501 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,560 British Library, of an early printed 502 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:45,360 version they've got of Thomas More's book about Richard III. 503 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,320 It was this piece of writing that inspired Shakespeare to 504 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,080 write his play about Richard III. 505 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:56,120 Now, More wasn't an eyewitness to the events of 1483, 506 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:59,440 when the Princes disappear. 507 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,040 More's producing his work in the 1510s 508 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:08,400 and he draws upon a key piece of evidence from 1502. 509 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,120 A man called James Tyrrell was in prison, 510 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:16,600 and there he confessed that he had been told by Richard III to 511 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,240 kill the Princes and he had delegated the job to two 512 00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:25,480 assassins, whose names were Forrest and Dighton. 513 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,200 Using the detail from Tyrrell's confession, More puts 514 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:33,960 together his famous description of exactly what happened to the boys. 515 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:39,080 "Sir James Tyrrell devised that they should be murdered in their beds, 516 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,960 "to the execution whereof he appointed Miles Forrest." 517 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,600 "A fellow fleshed in murder before time. 518 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,960 "To him, he joined one John Dighton. 519 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,960 "This Miles Forrest and John Dighton about midnight, 520 00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,440 "the sely children lying in their beds, 521 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:06,520 "came into the chamber and suddenly lapped them up 522 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,960 "among the clothes, so bewrapped them and entangled them, 523 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,360 "keeping down by force the feather bed and pillows 524 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:15,840 "hard unto their mouths... 525 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,960 "..that within a while, smored and stifled, their breath failing..." 526 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,240 "..They gave up to God their innocent souls 527 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:28,680 "into the joys of Heaven, 528 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,800 "leaving to the tormentors their bodies dead in the bed." 529 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,840 However many times I read that, it's still quite shocking. 530 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,760 Now, some people would say that More only wrote this as a piece of 531 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,880 propaganda for the Tudors, to please Henry VIII, 532 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,440 whose family had got rid of Richard III. 533 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,200 Other people argue that it's not about Richard III at all and it's 534 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,920 purely a sort of technical exercise in essay writing, 535 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,520 a sort of argument against tyranny. 536 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,640 But the degree of circumstantial detail 537 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,280 he gives about the murder convinces some people that this could be 538 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,480 a genuine source of information. 539 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,680 Thomas More tells us the murderers buried the boys' 540 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,960 bodies at the foot of a staircase in the Tower. 541 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:32,440 In 1674, 200 years later, 542 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:37,680 builders excavating near the same stairs discovered a wooden box, 543 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,560 containing two small skeletons. 544 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:46,240 The then King, Charles II, believed these were the Princes 545 00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:49,080 and had them interred, with proper 546 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,360 ceremony, here in Westminster Abbey. 547 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,200 This is where coronations actually happen. 548 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,960 Politicians, Prime Ministers... 549 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,720 ..Edward I... 550 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,400 Now we're getting to the really special bits. 551 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,640 I think it's in here. 552 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,560 So, here they are. 553 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,160 Possibly! 554 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,080 It's really tempting to believe it's them 555 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,600 because it says so here on the stone. 556 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:39,640 "Edward V, King of England, and Richard, Duke of York, 557 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:44,040 "confined in the Tower of London and suffocated." 558 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,960 And it seems really fitting that 559 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,440 this is about as deep into the abbey as you can get. 560 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,520 I've come through doors and arches and corridors and layers and I've 561 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,800 gone past all the great kings and the great queens and the statesmen, 562 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:05,480 and the Princes are concealed here at the back. 563 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,120 Like the truth about their story, 564 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,360 the remains of the Princes, 565 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,400 if indeed these are the remains of the Princes, 566 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,120 are hidden. 567 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,600 In 300 years, 568 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:33,280 royal permission has only once been granted for the urn to be opened. 569 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:43,280 In the 1930s, before radiocarbon dating 570 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:44,960 or DNA profiling, 571 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,520 two scientists examined the bones. 572 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,440 This is their report. 573 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,160 It's fascinating. 574 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:56,640 Could these be the bones of the little boys? 575 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,560 It's chilling to think that this could actually be 576 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,560 evidence in a murder investigation. 577 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,400 I'm not sure what to make of it, 578 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,760 but one of the scientists who examined Richard III's remains, 579 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,040 after they were found under the car park, might be able to help. 580 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:19,880 Hello! Hello. How are you? 581 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,160 Thanks for helping us out with this piece of work. 582 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,000 I've got some serious reservations about this report, 583 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,560 so do you want me to take you through... 584 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,720 Yes. ..some of the issues? Yes, yes, yes. OK. 585 00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:34,640 The first several pages are all about Richard III killing 586 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,440 the Princes in the Tower. 587 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,520 They don't actually come to examining the remains 588 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,640 until page 15. So, this is the lower jaw of the younger child, 589 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,720 "whom I shall now presume to call Richard." 590 00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:48,040 And then they go and call the other one Edward. 591 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,480 So, within a few paragraphs, they've decided they're going to 592 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,800 start calling these Edward and Richard, 593 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,360 so it feels very much like they've got an idea of what 594 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,240 they want the answer to be and then they're kind of making it fit. 595 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,920 Do you think it's fair to say that these are the bones of two 596 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,920 youngish people? That's completely fair. 597 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,520 They are convinced there's evidence of suffocation. 598 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,440 They're saying there's bloodstain on the bones of one of the skulls. 599 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,920 Yes. The interesting thing about the stain is they do 600 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,960 talk about how in the urn are three sets of iron nails. Oh! 601 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,600 They could have caused the stains. Really quite easily. Disappointing. 602 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,040 But he says here, "I have no doubt it was a bloodstain!" 603 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,120 And they draw on Shakespeare, not a well-known forensic specialist, 604 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,160 as the reason why they believe this is true. 605 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,040 "See how the blood is settled in his face," and a little later, 606 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,000 "but see his face is black and full of blood." 607 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,880 It must be true. I read it in a poem! 608 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:49,920 That's right. So, if these bones came into your laboratory today, 609 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,840 what would you do with them? Where would you start? 610 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,640 Let's radiocarbon date them, 611 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:59,320 because for all we know, these are Roman, Anglo-Saxon... 612 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,200 They could be completely the wrong period. 613 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,040 And then one of the things you can do is you can use DNA analysis. 614 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,400 We have Richard III's whole genome now. Of course, you do! 615 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,320 Richard III is their uncle, 616 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:16,000 so we could look for what looks like a 25%... Match. ..sharing. Oh! 617 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,480 I mean, would you actually like to do that? 618 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,080 Personally, I feel reservations. 619 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,520 I don't like the idea of messing with people who are at rest. 620 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:28,440 There's huge ethical considerations because I think to actually go and 621 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,840 disturb a set of remains, you have to have a decent research question. 622 00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,680 We'd have to be absolutely clear with ourselves why 623 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,760 we wanted to know. Mm. Yeah, why do you want to know? 624 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,600 And curiosity's not enough. It's not. 625 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,000 And if you were able to prove that they were 626 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,280 the remains of the Princes in the Tower, where would that leave us? 627 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,520 It would show that they hadn't left the Tower - 628 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:55,400 that would imply that what Thomas More says about Richard III 629 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,240 was true, but it wouldn't prove it, would it? 630 00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:01,720 It doesn't tell you who killed them. Do you find it all a bit slippery? 631 00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:03,840 It is, and frustratingly slippery. 632 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,800 And this is not the only story about what might have 633 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,200 happened to the Princes. 634 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,360 Yes. I've got something to show you in my office. OK. 635 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,120 KNOCKS ON DOOR 636 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,400 Right, let me show you something. It's a box of... 637 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,440 Bones. A box of bones! 638 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,040 What else would you have in your office?! Of course! 639 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,800 Well, normally, they're kept in the bone lab, 640 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,680 but they're about to go back to Sudeley Castle. Oh, yes? 641 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:36,240 So, they say, "Bones discovered in the 1980s near the Dungeon Tower." 642 00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:38,800 So, Richard III owned Sudeley Castle. 643 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,920 Bones have been discovered and so people start to think, "Ooh!" 644 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,760 "Are these the Princes?" "Are these the Princes?" 645 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,520 Hello! Loads of them. 646 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,920 So, there were four sets of remains that we 647 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,960 sent off for radiocarbon dating. 648 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,160 And? 18th and 19th century. Oh... So...yeah. 649 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,480 Well, we can say for sure these are not the lost Princes of the Tower. 650 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,120 These are NOT the lost Princes of the Tower. 651 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:11,960 I think the reason you get sent random bones is because people look 652 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,040 at this in terms of a murder mystery and that someone, 653 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,480 someday will solve the crime. 654 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,520 I don't think that's the right way to look at it. 655 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,600 I think of the little Princes as being like the Romanovs 656 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,680 in the 20th century, people who were killed for political reasons 657 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,280 and whose fate remained unknown, cos it was 658 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,400 better for the people in power that that's the way it fell out. 659 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,800 It's much better to let sleeping dogs lie. 660 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,920 It's really tempting to look at that urn in Westminster Abbey 661 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,880 and think, "Yes! That must contain the remains of the Princes," 662 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,760 but it's a question that's wide open, really. 663 00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:04,120 In terms of their actual physical human remains, 664 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:08,440 all that we can say about the Princes is that they're missing. 665 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,440 They're not necessarily murdered. They're missing persons. 666 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:21,520 I know, for some people, this lack of definitive proof means 667 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:26,440 there just aren't grounds to condemn Richard III as a child-killer. 668 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:31,040 The Richard III Society is dedicated to reclaiming 669 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,840 the reputation of a much-maligned King. 670 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,920 Matthew Lewis. Hello, Lucy. You look very studious, there. 671 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:43,800 Now, then. Let me ask you a question, Matt. 672 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,680 You don't believe that Richard III was guilty, do you? 673 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,240 What's your argument? 674 00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:53,480 I think simply that the case for the prosecution isn't watertight. 675 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,200 You can't prove that Richard III did it. 676 00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,840 What we have is two boys who disappear from view in 1483. 677 00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:01,600 We don't really have any strong 678 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,280 record that they were killed. 679 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,760 I don't believe the bodies in Westminster Abbey, 680 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,600 if they were tested, would turn out to be the Princes in the Tower. 681 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,000 And I think we have other potential suspects, if we believe they were 682 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,160 murdered, but I think we also have really compelling theories that they 683 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:19,080 may well have survived beyond 1485 and beyond Richard III's reign. 684 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,320 So, if this is a murder and if your guy didn't do it, Richard III, 685 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,240 who are the other suspects you'd like to bring to the table? 686 00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:29,720 There are several individuals that we can point directly at, 687 00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:32,760 but the first of them, and perhaps the most widely accepted, is 688 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,160 Henry Stafford, the Duke of Buckingham. 689 00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,840 Henry Stafford appears at the right-hand side of Richard 690 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,040 as he moves to become King Richard III, 691 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,520 but by October 1483 he's instigating rebellion against 692 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:49,000 Richard III, I think, to pursue his own claim to the throne of England. 693 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,280 So, does Henry Stafford do away with the Princes 694 00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,120 as part of his efforts to discredit Richard and dislodge him? 695 00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,640 There are several sources that point to him. 696 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,600 So, this was found as part of a collection of documents 697 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,800 as late as the 1980s, written probably in the early 1500s. 698 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,080 It says that the sons of Edward IV were put to death 699 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,160 "by the vise of the Duke of Buckingham." 700 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,880 "Vise" is a strange medieval word that can be used to mean 701 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,640 "the advice", but it can also mean 702 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,880 "the device" of Henry Stafford, so it could 703 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,880 have been his plot, his plan to do away with the Princes in the Tower. 704 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,360 Nobody had really looked at that till the 1980s? 705 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,640 It's in a collection of random documents to do with heraldry, 706 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,480 here at the College of Arms, and someone just came across it. 707 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,880 It's a really good example of how some of these key pieces of evidence 708 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,080 can just be lying around somewhere hidden, not yet being turned up. 709 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:41,200 Interesting. 710 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,320 So, we've looked at the Duke of Buckingham. This is... 711 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:46,280 Well, this is Henry... Henry VII, isn't it? 712 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,280 So, believing that he's in any way involved means that they were 713 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,760 alive in 1485, and when he becomes King, he finds them alive. 714 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:56,600 Right, so in this case, the Princes survive into the reign 715 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,520 of Richard III, and Henry Tudor does them in later. 716 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:03,080 He does, because he has to, to be able to take the throne himself. 717 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,240 What's interesting is almost anyone who is in power 718 00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,960 and in London in the early to mid 1480s could have had 719 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,360 an interest in doing away with the Princes. 720 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:17,080 Now, you personally don't believe that they were even killed, do you? 721 00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,600 I don't. What do you think happened to them, Matt? 722 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,320 I think that there's a strong likelihood that at least 723 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,720 one of them was moved to the North of England, 724 00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:27,720 into one of Richard's castles, packed with men loyal to him 725 00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:30,520 and who he could trust to look after these Princes, to keep them 726 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:32,120 secret and keep them out of the way, 727 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,840 so they couldn't be used against Richard. 728 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:39,280 We do have two pretenders who come along to threaten Henry VII, 729 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:41,040 the first Tudor King. 730 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,000 The first one that comes along in 1487 is known to 731 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,800 history as Lambert Simnel. 732 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,840 So, this would be the actual Prince having survived? 733 00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,120 He's the right age, he's 16 at this point, good age to be crowned 734 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:53,320 and to lead an army. 735 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:57,160 So, if this was the older boy coming back as the pretender, 736 00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,440 Lambert Simnel, what possibly happened to his younger brother? 737 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,760 The second pretender, who arrives in the early 1490s, is Perkin Warbeck. 738 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,000 And he comes to a sorry end, doesn't he? He does. 739 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,200 He has this kind of glittering career in the early 1490s, 740 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,040 convincing the crowned heads of Europe that he's really 741 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,640 Prince Richard, that he should be King Richard IV, 742 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,520 but he ends up being captured 743 00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,560 as part of an invasion of England, 744 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:25,640 he's executed in 1499. So, it's your belief that the boys survived... 745 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,680 I believe that they survived beyond 1485 and went on to challenge 746 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,320 Henry VII and that he dealt with that challenge by covering it up. 747 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,760 You see, I believe that you've done your research, 748 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,200 I just worry that you've been attracted to an exciting 749 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,000 story with a heroic narrator and an unexpected ending. 750 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:42,280 That's my fear for you, Matt. 751 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,720 It's definitely an interesting story, if it's true, 752 00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:47,280 but I think the key here is following the evidence. 753 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:51,920 What I just worry about is the idea 754 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,800 that you and a lot of other people 755 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,640 still treat this as a detective story 756 00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,920 and we want somebody to hang a "guilty" label on. 757 00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:01,800 And that's human nature. 758 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,760 It isn't necessarily the way that history works, though. 759 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,040 But it's so interesting because the sources say such ambiguous things. 760 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,560 You and I could pick up the same piece of original source material 761 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,560 and come to a completely different conclusion. Yeah. 762 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,760 There are few stories where things are that ambiguous and have that 763 00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:21,480 much space in them to investigate further 764 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,720 and to feel like there must be more to learn. 765 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:34,280 One thing I agree with Matt about is the ambiguity of the evidence. 766 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:40,560 "Sir James Tyrrell devised that they should be murdered in their beds." 767 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,960 Maybe new clues will come to light, 768 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,480 but until then, I think the key to this mystery is to 769 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,880 interrogate the sources we have. 770 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:53,680 "To the execution whereof he appointed Miles Forrest, 771 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:58,040 "to him he joined one John Dighton." 772 00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:02,080 Thomas More's account includes such specific 773 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:06,040 detail about the night of the Princes' murder. 774 00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:10,120 I want to know if what he tells us can be verified 775 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,240 and if More can be trusted. 776 00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:17,360 So, this is Buckfast Abbey. It's my first visit. 777 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,600 Hello. Can I go on in? 778 00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,560 Thank you. 779 00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:31,080 I'm here to find out about some 780 00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,800 exciting new research into More's 781 00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,520 text, but first, I want to see 782 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,920 an extraordinary religious relic. 783 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,760 Thomas More was a devout Catholic. 784 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,680 Henry VIII had him 785 00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,560 executed for opposing his plan to reform the Church. 786 00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,840 Hello. May I come in? You may, indeed. 787 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,720 And as an act of religious devotion, he often wore, 788 00:50:53,720 --> 00:50:59,400 concealed beneath his clothes, a painfully coarse goat-hair shirt. 789 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,120 Is this really it? This is really it. 790 00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:09,600 I just feel a huge in-built scepticism about the exact 791 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:13,000 nature, not just of holy relics, but of all, you know, 792 00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,040 secular relics, anything that is said to be 793 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,880 the hat of Henry VIII, the hat of Cardinal Wolsey.... 794 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:24,600 This is the most remarkable object because it's highly possible... 795 00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,760 In fact, it's certain, in your eyes, that that touched 796 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,840 the skin of a man who was alive 500 years ago. 797 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:36,960 What happened was he was beheaded on the 6th of July 1535, 798 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:38,360 and the day before, 799 00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:42,600 he gave this hair shirt to his adopted daughter, 800 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:46,280 Margaret Giggs, and it then passed to the Diocese of Plymouth. 801 00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:48,680 The Diocese of Plymouth then asked 802 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,520 us to have it here for public veneration. 803 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,920 These are all verifiable historical events. 804 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,040 Mm. And that makes it a very significant relic, I think. 805 00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,640 What sort of a person does his 806 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,040 hair shirt say that he was, then? 807 00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:06,640 This is something that he chose to wear, 808 00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:09,040 because he identifies with Christ, 809 00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,480 and Christ suffered on the cross. 810 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,760 Wearing this every day is a very close connection with 811 00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,560 the sufferings of Christ. 812 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:19,840 That's a really different world view, isn't it? 813 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:21,840 A lot of people would say that Thomas More's 814 00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:27,440 book about the rise of Richard III is pro-Tudor propaganda. 815 00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,640 I suppose if he's someone as committed to his faith as to 816 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,160 do something like this on a regular basis, 817 00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:38,240 he's not going to be bullied by worldly authority in any way, is he? 818 00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:41,160 I think the fact that he would not go along with Henry VIII becoming 819 00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,520 the head of the Church in this country would certainly 820 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,000 indicate that. He was willing to put his life on the line. 821 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,160 I think that's a massive argument against him 822 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,520 having been purely a propagandist. 823 00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,080 Yes, I think his character, his life, his writings 824 00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:57,920 all indicate that he was interested in what is fair, what is just. 825 00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,440 So, if Thomas More was interested in the truth, 826 00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,400 he must have trusted his sources. 827 00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:15,480 One historian has taken a new approach to verify 828 00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:20,960 information More claimed to have got from James Tyrrell's confession. 829 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,200 Hello. Hello, Lucy. I'm excited to meet you. 830 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,120 It's good to meet you, too. This is a really splendid library, isn't it? 831 00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:28,680 Yeah, I love libraries, 832 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,000 but this just has a fantastic atmosphere, doesn't it? 833 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,520 Tim, how on Earth is it possible that you've managed to find 834 00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:37,200 a new avenue of investigation? What was your approach? 835 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,680 Well, this is the most investigated 836 00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,720 mystery of the late Middle Ages. 837 00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:45,120 For most people, 838 00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:48,600 the summer or the autumn of 1483 is where the story ends, 839 00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:49,960 but I think, in truth, 840 00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,360 the summer or the autumn of 1483 is where the story begins, 841 00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,760 and if we're really going to understand what happened, 842 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:57,600 we need to look at what happened next. 843 00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,360 And I think one of the fascinating things about More's account 844 00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,000 is that central to it are several people 845 00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,280 who are survivors into the period 846 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,720 when he was writing, in the 1510s, and what I wanted to explore 847 00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:13,360 was the possibility that More had direct access to those individuals. 848 00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:18,640 So, you wanted to put More and his sources in the same place, 849 00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:20,280 at the same time, or at least 850 00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,720 in close contact with each other. Indeed. 851 00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:27,280 So, if we look at the text of More, you can see that he's providing us 852 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:31,640 with the names of the murderers - Miles Forrest and John Dighton. 853 00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,080 Are they real? Is there evidence for them? 854 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,280 What have you been able to uncover? So, these are real people. 855 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:41,560 John Dighton, and also the two sons of Miles Forrest, Edward and Miles. 856 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,280 They were active at the court of Henry VIII in the 1510s, 857 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,520 just as More was active at court. 858 00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,600 So, what I was doing was looking for all the evidence 859 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,200 I could for More's activities in the 1510s, 860 00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,040 when he was writing the History of King Richard III, 861 00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,360 and his connections to John Dighton 862 00:54:58,360 --> 00:55:01,800 and also the two sons of Miles Forrest. 863 00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:05,360 And what established the connection between More doing his research 864 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,600 and these people who were witnesses? 865 00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:09,480 It was a bit of a eureka moment, really. 866 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,960 I came across this letter from 1515, 867 00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,320 when More was on embassy in Bruges, 868 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,400 in the Low Countries, 869 00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,080 and the embassy are exchanging messages back and forth 870 00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:23,840 from England, 871 00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:28,000 and so you can see in this letter More's signature at the foot. 872 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,360 Mm. Thomas More, he was there. Fascinating. 873 00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,000 But the messenger, 874 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:38,480 who is referred to in the second line, is one M Forrest. 875 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,320 So, this is one of the sons 876 00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,760 of the man that More says killed 877 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,000 the Princes in the Tower. Miles Forrest. 878 00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,480 It was one of those moments, I'm afraid, for a historian, that makes 879 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,360 the hairs stand up on the back of your neck because it puts him 880 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:01,000 in the same place at the same time as one of his key witnesses. 881 00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:02,600 Where were you when this happened? 882 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,880 Were you in the reading room, where you have to be quiet, 883 00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,560 and you went, "Yes!"? I did restrain myself, 884 00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:12,640 but, yes, I came across it among the records in the National Archives. 885 00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:14,080 And I think it increases 886 00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,080 the credibility of More's account significantly. 887 00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:21,400 So, this letter proves that just at the time that More was 888 00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:25,280 writing his history, he was personally in contact, 889 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,280 face-to-face, with the son of one of the murderers... Indeed. 890 00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,720 ..from 1483. Indeed. 891 00:56:31,720 --> 00:56:35,760 So, it's perfectly possible that he said, "Well, my dad did it. 892 00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:37,280 "He did the deed." 893 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,800 There's a lot of ifs and buts here, 894 00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,880 but what you have done is 895 00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:48,360 make it more comprehensible that 896 00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,200 More is in fact telling the truth. You've sort of built up 897 00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,640 the foundations of his credibility a bit more. 898 00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,560 I think we've demonstrated very clearly where the sources 899 00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,920 potentially lay for what's previously been considered 900 00:56:59,920 --> 00:57:05,640 a potentially speculative, or even deliberately deceptive account. Mm. 901 00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,840 You know, I've been really convinced by Tim that Thomas More was a 902 00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:23,200 truth-teller, one of the first people to try to find out what had 903 00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,160 happened to the Princes. 904 00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:30,280 I'm persuaded that Richard III did have them murdered, but I think we 905 00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:35,200 get much too caught up in the guilt, or not, of wicked Uncle Richard. 906 00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:39,480 It seems to me to be much more interesting to look at the deaths of 907 00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:44,320 these boys as part of the cut-throat, kill-or-be-killed, 908 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:47,400 game-of-thrones political culture of 909 00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,320 the 15th century. 910 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,360 If you were an heir to the throne, 911 00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:57,200 you were nothing more than a pawn in the game of power. 912 00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,880 And being a child made no difference at all. 913 00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,320 This is still an active case for historians. 914 00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,640 So many of us are out there, still looking for evidence. 915 00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:14,720 And maybe new clues will surface that settle the matter 916 00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:19,280 once and for all, but it's the nature of history 917 00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:21,240 that it's never fixed. 918 00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:25,040 It speaks to us in different ways, at different times, 919 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:29,120 and that's why I think this story is set to run and run. 920 00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,200 The madness of King George. 921 00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,280 How did one woman's attempt 922 00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:42,520 to kill the King inspire a change 923 00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,000 in attitudes towards mental health? 924 00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:48,400 It caused a scandal. 925 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,760 People were offended by this idea of a double standard 926 00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:53,280 for rich and for poor.